02 December 2013

The Latest Deluxe T&T Update Worries Me

The latest post on T&T aficionado Tori Bergquist's blog is titled "Deluxe T&T Update 43 is out...and it actually worried me a bit". Well... Same over here at Timinits & Trolls!

I have read Liz Danforth's long update message about the Deluxe T&T kickstarter, and the more I read, the more I grew worried!
There's been a number of illustrations made available on the kickstarter updates but, basically, I am under the impression that the real work on the text of DT&T hasn't started yet. I know Liz was severely ill but reading sentences like “we haven't decided yet whether we should go class-less” or “Ken wanted elves, fairies, hobs, trolls, or ratlings to be their own class” is simply mind-boggling. The former architectural decision would turn DT&T into BRP/RQ, the latter into classic fantasy! Most of us already own and play those games, we don't need yet another d100 based game or classic fantasy clone— what we need is a streamlined version of Tunnels & Trolls combining the best features of the 5th ed., of the 30th anniversary rules, and of the French edition. Period.

I am a sad Troll

Still from Liz: “One of the Kickstarter comments was a request for the Table of Contents. I can’t give that to you”. Er, this to me translates as: 'I haven't started yet so how could I possibly give you even a tentative ToC?'. Sigh.

At this stage, I don't even want DT&T to be shipped in 2014— That would mean the game hasn't been sufficiently play-tested before it's made available. Grr.


  1. I didn't even read the update that closely, I now realize.

    Any kickstarter that becomes late makes me sigh, but as long they are actually talking. I know a few where they don't even do that any longer...

  2. I know a lot of KS project don't even provide updates any longer. So at least we know DT&T is alive. What I'm saying basically is— rather than rush things up to be 'ready in 2014' just make sure the product conforms to the standards of quality expected by the fans. The Guide to Glorantha KS, for instance, is late but at least we know why thanks to the frequent updates, draft versions, pieces of art, etc.

  3. The reasons that explain the delay are also the reasons why I believe this is going to be the best edition of the T&T rulebook.
    1) Liz is a perfectionist, and Ken is definitely not. Combining such highly differing approaches is hard and time-consuming, but see what they were able to achieve back in the 70s with the 5th edition...
    2) The Fellowship of the Trolls have received considerable feedback from the fans. Many ideas have been discussed. I think that was the right thing to do, but taking into consideration so many ideas obviously takes time.
    And yes, quality requires time. They underestimated the scope of their task, but it's very common practice in the RPG industry ;-)

  4. In this case, the later the better :)

    I very much want dT&T to be the best version of the rules ever — I've even put the development of my home rules in hiatus because of this; I'm patient and I'll wait!